Ban plastic bags?

[Punk_Rocker_22]

Should stores be required to stop providing plastic (or paper) bags, or perhaps charge inflated prices, such as a dollar a bag. Its not that hard to bring you're own bag and will certainly cut down on waste.

[gforce]

Here (the UK) they are starting to stop giving out free plastic bags - there were quite a few big news stories running about companies the other week in fact.

Most stores already have the 'bag for life' and charging even 20p per plastic bag i think will make people change from disposable to reusable bags.

So, quite a good idea.

[Slave of the Beast]

Should stores be required to stop providing plastic (or paper) bags, or perhaps charge inflated prices, such as a dollar a bag. Its not that hard to bring you're own bag and will certainly cut down on waste.

Yes, as unfortunately people these days often respond in a socially responsible manner only when hit with a stick. And at least in this case they aren't being denied anything in the process.

[Eagle Bay]

Most of the smaller stores I come across, you don't get a bag automatically, you have to ask for one. Its not much, but it does help. In the larger stores, they have racks of reusable bags for sale near the checkout.

In bunnings (a large hardware store chain) they haven't supplied plastic bags for about five years now, they sell reusable ones, or have free cardboard boxes to carry stuff in. The boxes are reused, they are what the stock comes in.

I still get plastic bags from the supermarket, but not for just a few items. All the bags I get are re-used though, as bin liners or as play toys for my housemate's kids. (Toddlers can make anything seem fun!)

Incidentally, I read that in china, between 1 and 1.5 BILLION plastic bags are used EACH DAY. They are starting to tax that and make them 'request only' though, which is good.

(yes, I was kidding about the toddlers too)

[Trousersnake]

If I had it my way I'd charge something like 30c per shopping bag and have cashiers point this out everytime like "do you need me to bag these in plastic for you @ 30c per bag today?" when the customer gets pissed off they are directed to the reusable bags on the shelves for about a dollar each.

Anyone silly enough to still go for plastic bags and pay for them would be funding environmental initatives with their generous donation.

[ZeroMalarki]

Denmark has the right idea, you have to pay an arm and a leg for one plastic bag.

[eesakiwi]

Shit, the bags only weigh 5gms each.
Thats, X 200 = 1 Kg plastic

The plastic tray that your meat is on weighs the same.
So does that plastic scoop they put into the washing powder.

So does One plastic yoghurt container, theres 6 in a tray, thats 6 shopping bags!

I'm yet to weigh a plastic bottle of dishwash, but thats more than a bunch of shopping bags.

I gotta idea, I'll weigh what plastic household containers I've got around & see how they 'weigh up'

I reuse the bags as rubbish bags or something else anyway.

[Trousersnake]

Shit, the bags only weigh 5gms each.
Thats, X 200 = 1 Kg plastic

The plastic tray that your meat is on weighs the same.
So does that plastic scoop they put into the washing powder.

So does One plastic yoghurt container, theres 6 in a tray, thats 6 shopping bags!

I'm yet to weigh a plastic bottle of dishwash, but thats more than a bunch of shopping bags.

I gotta idea, I'll weigh what plastic household containers I've got around & see how they 'weigh up'

I reuse the bags as rubbish bags or something else anyway.

That's a pretty good take on it but there's no opportunity to go to the supermarket and tell them to top up your yoghurt container.

[DietPepsi]

ur idea is stoopid lololol

[LuKaZz420]

I always re-use all my shopping bags for collecting rubbish since I don't recycle.

[fungo]

I make clothes out of plastic bags.

[AsylumSeaker]

Plastic bags definitely don't waste shit all material. I've been gathering all mine in one big garbage bag for years.
However they do end up in the waterways and kill shit.

[nau06248]

ASDA beside me stopped doing them the other day, but on the self service guess what they still have... and guess where I always go... It is a good idea though, but it is only one tiny dent in the packaging and plastics industry.

It is just a distraction. An opertunity to make your company appear green. Do you seriously think this will continue onto the packaging of all the food. eesakiwi has a point, there are far bigger issues here. They have just picked the easy one to get rid of.

[nau06248]

Plastic bags definitely don't waste shit all material. I've been gathering all mine in one big garbage bag for years.
However they do end up in the waterways and kill shit.

they don't waste any plastice?!?! When millions are being used everyday?!

Also, why can't everyone just convert to paper bags that will biodegrade in like 6months?

[AsylumSeaker]

they don't waste any plastice?!?! When millions are being used everyday?!

Also, why can't everyone just convert to paper bags that will biodegrade in like 6months?

They waste some. But as someone else pointed out, other disposable plastic containers and objects use far more plastic than plastic bags.
Its likely that switching from plastic bags to paper ones would be disproportionately expensive to the benefit and that money could be better used elsewhere.
Encouraging people to use reusable bags is obviously a better option than replacing plastic bags with another disposable in any case, especially one made out of trees.

[nau06248]

They waste some. But as someone else pointed out, other disposable plastic containers and objects use far more plastic than plastic bags.
Its likely that switching from plastic bags to paper ones would be disproportionately expensive to the benefit and that money could be better used elsewhere.
Encouraging people to use reusable bags is obviously a better option than replacing plastic bags with another disposable in any case, especially one made out of trees.

I guess you have a point. It is still a LOT of plastic...

As I said, it is only a small dent in deposable plastics.

[eesakiwi]

Ok, I found a few things & weighed them >

2.25 Litre plastic soda bottle = 64gms
1.5 Litre plastic soda bottle = 55gms
Dishwasher powder bottle 1Kg = 70gms
Icecream container 2Kg = 67gms
Cottonbuds x100 container = 17gms
Random plastic backing on hardware store item = 17gms
454 gm 'Gap sealer' tube = 58gms
1Litre milk container 56gms
Sour cream (250gms) pottle 15gms
Toiletpaper(x4rolls) plastic bag 5gms

So OK, the shopping bag may weigh only 5gms but disposable plastic thats in it probably weighs about 300 - 400 gms....

[007_nich]

A local health foods market around here has begun using biodegradable plastic bags. Dunno exactly what they're made of (I'd assume some sort of vegetable oil), but they're actually stronger than regular Safeway/Vons/whatever bags, and will degrade in a couple of years.

I think that places should start using these (but charge for them), or have you bring your own bags from home.

[flatplat]

Ok, I found a few things & weighed them >

2.25 Litre plastic soda bottle = 64gms
1.5 Litre plastic soda bottle = 55gms
Dishwasher powder bottle 1Kg = 70gms
Icecream container 2Kg = 67gms
Cottonbuds x100 container = 17gms
Random plastic backing on hardware store item = 17gms
454 gm 'Gap sealer' tube = 58gms
1Litre milk container 56gms
Sour cream (250gms) pottle 15gms
Toiletpaper(x4rolls) plastic bag 5gms

So OK, the shopping bag may weigh only 5gms but disposable plastic thats in it probably weighs about 300 - 400 gms....


Good point, it's defiantly something that deserves more focus. And it's pathetic that it doesn't - as a lot of this wouldn't be difficult to improve.

Toilet paper: can be wrapped in brown paper packing rather than plastic. There is one brand at the supermarket that does this.
Milk and sour cream: could be put in cartons. The plastic lining isn't actually a huge problem - it can be removed in the recycling process.
Icecream: Like above. You can get cardboard containers with plastic lining for some one or two litre varieties already. (Usually the expensive, 'boutique' ones)
Dishwashing powder: Why the hell is that being sold in a bottle? A cardboard box is usually sufficient. As long as you're not stupid enough to leave it on the floor of the laundry when you flood the sink. (Me=idiot)
PET bottles: Laziness is the problem here. They're often not recycled, but should be. At least the recycle rate is higher than that of plastic bags. (and success in recycling as well - recycled plastic supermarket bags are SHIT)
But it's still a problem, recycling most types of plastic is more energy intensive than paper.
Cottonbuds: Do they really think we need to be able to see them through the packaging? They're cotton buds! I'm sure a box will do.

The other two, I'm not sure what they are, so I'll leave them.

I still wouldn't give up the focus on plastic bags - in Aust, they make up about 20000 tonnes (http://www.cleanup.org.au/au/NewsandMedia/plastic-bags-170507.html?kw=supermarket)of plastic in the landfills each year. We've had some success with cutting them down, with most supermarkets offering the reusable 'green bags,' but there is still room for improvement.
(It's a little ironic though that the 'green bags' themselves are not biodegradable. They are reusable, but they don't last forever and will eventually end up in the landfill too. Calico bags would be a better choice. But since the introduction of the green bag, they're not offered in as many supermarkets anymore.)

The main chains over here would be better off following Aldi's example - their cheapest plastic bags are 15c each, and they're huge. Biodegradable ones are also on offer at most stores for about 50c.
You don't see many people walking out of Aldi with only a single bottle of juice or a carton of milk double bagged because 'Oh, I'm waking' Carry it in your bloody arms, dammit!

[Flannery]

they don't waste any plastice?!?! When millions are being used everyday?!

Also, why can't everyone just convert to paper bags that will biodegrade in like 6months?

actually billions and converting to paper wouldn't even be that much better. It's not hard for people to just carry their shit or buy reusable bags for like a dollar a piece.

[Chimro]

You enviro-faggots need to STFU and die.

Seriously, save the planet and kill yourself; leave the rest of us reasonable people alone.

Thanks to your gas taxes the economy of the West is dying. Don't give me bullshit about the price of oil, taxes make upwards of 40% of what we pay at the pump.

If you want my plastic bags, you're going to have to kill me, and if I go down I'm taking a lot of you faggots with me!

[Flannery]

You enviro-faggots need to STFU and die.

Seriously, save the planet and kill yourself; leave the rest of us reasonable people alone.

Thanks to your gas taxes the economy of the West is dying. Don't give me bullshit about the price of oil, taxes make upwards of 40% of what we pay at the pump.

If you want my plastic bags, you're going to have to kill me, and if I go down I'm taking a lot of you faggots with me!

actually the US government subsidizes the gas prices. Nice try though.

[flatplat]

If you want my plastic bags, you're going to have to kill me, and if I go down I'm taking a lot of you faggots with me!

Do us all a favor - take your precious plastic bag and asphyxiate yourself with it.

[ZeroMalarki]

Do us all a favor - take your precious plastic bag and asphyxiate yourself with it.

Quoted For Mother Fucking Truth.

[Chimro]

actually the US government subsidizes the gas prices. Nice try though.

You stupid cock.

First of all, this is absolutely not true.

Secondly, I do not live in the United States so it's a moot point.

[Flannery]

You stupid cock.

First of all, this is absolutely not true.

Secondly, I do not live in the United States so it's a moot point.

Maybe you should learn some facts. Faggot. Gas prices haven't even risen all that much in your faggy countries. You probably just take the train anyway.

http://www.progress.org/2003/energy22.htm

[gforce]

Maybe you should learn some facts. Faggot. Gas prices haven't even risen all that much in your faggy countries.

Well lets examine that point over the previous year or so.

This article states that last May the average price for petrol in US was $3.18 for midgrade
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18522401/

Now in the UK the average price for similar octane fuel was around 90p/l or $6.70 for a US gallon

Fast forward a year and in the US the average price is $4.04 an increase of $1.14

Here petrol has gone up to £1.17/l average or $8.70 /gallon so an increase of $2. Also if we did diesel we should note here it has gone up by a greater amount

OK, yes your increase may 'feel' more because it is a slightly larger % increase (35% for the US and 30% for the UK) but just saying that we haven't had the same price rises without checking facts is wrong.

[Flannery]

Well lets examine that point over the previous year or so.

This article states that last May the average price for petrol in US was $3.18 for midgrade
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18522401/

Now in the UK the average price for similar octane fuel was around 90p/l or $6.70 for a US gallon

Fast forward a year and in the US the average price is $4.04 an increase of $1.14

Here petrol has gone up to £1.17/l average or $8.70 /gallon so an increase of $2. Also if we did diesel we should note here it has gone up by a greater amount

OK, yes your increase may 'feel' more because it is a slightly larger % increase (35% for the US and 30% for the UK) but just saying that we haven't had the same price rises without checking facts is wrong.

That's a little misleading. If you do the price changes for two years when gas was like $2.20 here then you'll see that our prices have had a more dramatic change. Also you guys don't even drive anywhere or have cars.

[gforce]

Also you guys don't even drive anywhere or have cars.

Have you ever been to this country? The roads are gridlocked every day. Saying we don't drive anywhere or don't have cars is simply ignorant. Our cars are more efficient than American cars but i bet we still pay similar amounts in fuel overall because of the price/fuel economy difference.

And with less government taxes on fuel of course the actual cost of the fuel is going to take up a greater percentage of the total cost, meaning a rise in price of the actual fuel is going to lead to a greater percentage rise over time.

I think what you are trying to imply is that the rest of the world should feel sorry for Americans because it is apparently their god given right to have cheap gas and be able to drive everywhere they want and these price rises have meant that maybe you can't take that 'right' any more.

[flatplat]

Sorry to point this thread away from the topic even further, but I found this: http://tinyurl.com/44npcg

I wont be whining about my fuel tax again.

[stab]

Answer me this: If plastic bags are banned, what will dog owners use to pick up dog shit?

[Fanglekai]

Their hands.

[Runaway_Stapler]

Answer me this: If plastic bags are banned, what will dog owners use to pick up dog shit?

http://www.authorstream.com/Content/killer-8762-lips-ppt-powerpoint-118_88.jpg

[ComradeAsh]

I found out the other day that borders charge for plastic bags...but they don't for gift wrapping.

You can guess what I did.

[Mc. Black]

plastic bags are still the only cheap and legal weapon in the whole world.

[wolfy_9005]

Apparently in the pacific ocean theres a whole sea of plastic and other shit. My(from 60 minutes....) idea is to charge people the 20 or 30c per bag then the money goes to clean it up.

Problem solved :P

(also, we gotta stop china dumping it's shit into the ocean.......otherwise nuclear missiles will be the only way)

[xilikeeggs0]

Most of the smaller stores I come across, you don't get a bag automatically, you have to ask for one. Its not much, but it does help. In the larger stores, they have racks of reusable bags for sale near the checkout.

Where do you live? Around here, no matter what store I go to, they try to bag everything. I've literally gone to a store to get 1 item, only to have them try to bag it for me. I used to use one of those reusable bags but it's too much of a hassle (yes, I'm that lazy), so I just carry it out myself. It's really not that hard.

[Broken_LCD]

I work at a grocery store as a cashier and there has definitely been an increase in people bringing their own bags. We sell them for $.99 too, good sturdy tote bags...and give a $.05 refund for every reusable bag they bring in, every time they bring it in.

I was curious though as to how much petroleum and chemicals go into making these tote bags (also have a plastic base at the bottom)? I know it cuts down on waste, but to make these bags is it actually more work and using more petroleum, energy, and such rather than making a thin plastic bag?

I'm all for the reusable, just wondering about it though.

[Punk_Rocker_22]

I work at a grocery store as a cashier and there has definitely been an increase in people bringing their own bags. We sell them for $.99 too, good sturdy tote bags...and give a $.05 refund for every reusable bag they bring in, every time they bring it in.

Stop 'n Shop?

[Broken_LCD]

Stop 'n Shop?

lol, yeah

[Stuuuuuuu]

Apparently in the pacific ocean theres a whole sea of plastic and other shit. My(from 60 minutes....) idea is to charge people the 20 or 30c per bag then the money goes to clean it up.

Problem solved :P

(also, we gotta stop china dumping it's shit into the ocean.......otherwise nuclear missiles will be the only way)



My current state (Oregon) will start charging 5-20 cents per bag as of next year

[L33tz]

Ban plastic bags. This is gay. I'm not shopping at some faggot store with reusable bags.

[nau06248]

You know these bags do actually degrade. Takes about 100 years. Now you have all these prats shouting this fact about like it is unacceptable. Well is it really that bad?! 100 years is less than two generations... Even if they were going to take 500 years to degrade, on the grand scheme of things that really is absolutly nothing!

Also, what are we going to use as bin liners... I would say the majority of plastic bags end up as bin liners... So we go buy plastic bags for rubbish. Problem hasn't really been solved, and the supermarkets have just made some more money not having to buy billions of bags.

[granite erection]

I found out the other day that borders charge for plastic bags...but they don't for gift wrapping.

You can guess what I did.

did you my some of the other crap they sell that isn't books and oddly shaped. extra gift wrapping fun!

[AsylumSeaker]

You know these bags do actually degrade. Takes about 100 years. Now you have all these prats shouting this fact about like it is unacceptable. Well is it really that bad?! 100 years is less than two generations... Even if they were going to take 500 years to degrade, on the grand scheme of things that really is absolutly nothing!


They don't fully degrade. They break up into microscopic parts which end up in the ocean and soil.

[nau06248]

They don't fully degrade. They break up into microscopic parts which end up in the ocean and soil.

oh. Yup, you are correct.

[heroic harlequin]

I brought my own bag, I even brought it out in front of some of the female workers. Though admittedly they were impressed, it still did not go down a storm.

[Xerxes35]

Should stores be required to stop providing plastic (or paper) bags, or perhaps charge inflated prices, such as a dollar a bag. Its not that hard to bring you're own bag and will certainly cut down on waste.

Fuck you.

[Sexual_Jesus]

why there at it they may as well ban trucks, and v8 cars, and computers that can run crysis. then not only would we have to carry our shit out in paper bags like peasents but nothing would be delivered to those lazy fat assholes who are to poor for a trailer, i wouldnt be able to do burnouts in rental cars and gamers wouldnt be able to inflate there epenis by saying they can run an overrated piece of shit game.

tl;dr the world would stop spinning if they b& platic bags

[jheit2]

Should stores be required to stop providing plastic (or paper) bags, or perhaps charge inflated prices, such as a dollar a bag. Its not that hard to bring you're own bag and will certainly cut down on waste.
There is a tax now in Portland, Oregon.

[Aces High]

If the theory of global warming is in fact true, it doesn't matter what we do at this point. The deadline they set to halt current energy consumption has passed already.

So, if global warming exists, we're powerless to stop it.

[Issue313]

If the theory of global warming is in fact true, it doesn't matter what we do at this point. The deadline they set to halt current energy consumption has passed already.

So, if global warming exists, we're powerless to stop it.

WTF does banning plastic bags have to do with global warming?

I'm all for banning plastic bags. Those motherfuckers really piss me off, they always stretch and tear and make too much noise. I say make the motherfuckers provide us with decent cloth bags. Aldi have decent bags, but the queues there are so long I usually end up smashing the cashiers head with my fists I'm so pissed off because I ate all the food while waiting to check out. Motherfuckers.

[Mitchell Y. McDeere]

be required

Fuck you, you freedom hating commie.

[wolfy_9005]

Maybe you should learn some facts. Faggot. Gas prices haven't even risen all that much in your faggy countries. You probably just take the train anyway.

http://www.progress.org/2003/energy22.htm

Petrol prices went up 60-70c/liter(used to be 80-90c/liter) because new orleans got fucking owned by katrina, and unfortunately most of the oil rigs did too. Why the fuck do i have to pay more for a commodity my country produces itself? It has it's own oil, and it's own refineries, and everything else we need to sustain ourselves(but a fuck load of desert). My country is stupid.....we sell iron ore, only to buy it back as refined steel/iron for a shit load more, we also import coal, which we have a lot of. Only thing i think we dont have to import is gas, which we still pay heaps for compared to what we sell it to china for.

And plastic bags are made from the shittiest plastic there is, there no point recycling them.

Just use paper, then recycle them. And tree's are renewable.

[gunjah]

I dont even really see the need for grocery bags. It really just helps identify that you paid for your items. I mean everyone pushes their items in a cart to their car anyway....What we should do is have personal carts that we bring with us to the market and bring our items into our house with.

[53v3N]

One big public relations scheme to make said companies appear 'green'. So naturally, all other chains have to jump on the 'green' bandwagon because they really care about money and their image - I mean - the environment.

[ellementlady89]

FUCK THIS GOING GREEN SHIT;
the planet is fucked
let's accept it


seriously, what about the people who have large families..if you have a bunch of kids you have to buy crap food for you can't carry them around in those lykomgtotallycutetotes!

[Jack-sik]

did you my some of the other crap they sell that isn't books and oddly shaped. extra gift wrapping fun!

WTF are you trying to say "did you my some..."
oh you meant buy soz

[Aeroue]

I am no envirofag or whatever you like to call them but there are problems that need to be solved.

I only read the first couple pages. The only people who seem to get it are the ones observing how what you actually buy to fill these bags is where the real environmental problem lies. Not only is it a far greater amount of waste but it is far easier to reduce. With the current plan of reducing waste by making us the consumer have to solve the issue individually trying to make us change to different bags it will obviously be much harder. Many people can't be bothered, they don't care or they are unaware. Also because the only direct influence we have is on how many plastic bags are used, a tiny portion of the problem, not only will it be harder to enact but ineffective too.

The government just needs to impose a tax on packaging to the companies that produce this stuff. If the companies are responsible the problem is solved at source not at the end when the problem already exists. The more it weighs the more they pay, if it is biodegradable and from a renewable resource they would get significant reductions. Obviously some products need significant amounts of packaging so the weights and tax to be paid will all be weighted for the product or type of product in question. The lowest weight, most renewable and most biodegradable overall product on the market gets another bonus tax reduction to encourage competitiveness. Each producer will want to have this product.

I came up with this in 5 minutes. So if there are any huge things I have missed then say but it seems reasonable to me.

[chasejkj]

Heres the simple thing about it is

toilet paper-should just be sold by the roll

paper plates-should just be just tied together

paper towels-sold by the roll

Butter-you could put in just paper wraps and sell by the bar.

granola bars-should just be put in a brown bag no wraped.

Make all pop put in aluminium cans.

caned food-should just be put in the metal no need for plastic labels maybe just written with sharpie.

pens-there alot of the time made with pastic just make a them with stick cardboard

dish washing detergant-it hard to contain with cardboard so but some metal or glass instead of plastic.

Hot wheels-just put in little cardboard boxes.

plastic cups-make them out of clay.

cell phones-make them out of silicon mixed with little peices of paper.

books-don't put the extra covering of plastic on the books

tires-find something that is not rubber or plastic like sillicon with sand particles.

Have more recycleing boxes siteing around the city

Charge 5 bucks per reusable plasticbag at everystore and put them under counter the price will make it so no as many people buy them.

[Fligh]

gotta have something to pick up after the dag ;)

[Nagasaki911]

So say i go downtown one night to chill with my friends. Out of the blue i feel hungry so I walk into the local 7-eleven and pick up a few things. Obviously I am not carrying a reusable bag in my back pocket so what am i supposed to do. just carry like 5 items in my bare hands? fuck the bag banners when there are so many ways that we can help the enviornment more while messing up our lives to much

[The Methematician]

So say i go downtown one night to chill with my friends. Out of the blue i feel hungry so I walk into the local 7-eleven and pick up a few things. Obviously I am not carrying a reusable bag in my back pocket so what am i supposed to do. just carry like 5 items in my bare hands? fuck the bag banners when there are so many ways that we can help the enviornment more while messing up our lives to much

[1] put all the stuffs in your jacket.

[2] walks out.

[xilikeeggs0]

So say i go downtown one night to chill with my friends. Out of the blue i feel hungry so I walk into the local 7-eleven and pick up a few things. Obviously I am not carrying a reusable bag in my back pocket so what am i supposed to do. just carry like 5 items in my bare hands? fuck the bag banners when there are so many ways that we can help the enviornment more while messing up our lives to much

I can understand that, but what about when I go to the store and buy a gallon of milk and a toothbrush? Come on, do I really need 2 plastic bags for that?

I almost always end up either talking things out of the bags and just carrying them, or taking them out and putting them in other bags. Cashiers here are fucking retarded. No, the eggs do not need their own bag. The bread and marshmallows can go on top of them. The milk doesn't need a bag at all (I'm not Canadian), I can carry it by the handle. That's what it's there for.