how one becomes a shaman

[ArmsMerchant]

This is a subject for a master's thesis, but someone asked, so I'll do the best I can off the top of my head.

In some societies, shamanism is a family thing--if your mom or dad was a shaman, you'll be a shaman.

In some cases, one is sort of initiated by another. For instance, early on, my wife went to a psychic regularly, and he suggested she start doing her own readings. As of now, she has been doing readings professionally for over thirty years. recently, a woman was written up in the paper--she had consulted a shaman, he saw power in her, and now she is a shaman herself.

Arguably, the easiest way is to take a course or read a book. The Foundation for Shamanic Studies has been doing courses on shamanism for around twenty years. I'm sure that not all the students have become professional shamans, but I would venture to say that at least 90 percent of them can do some shamanic work. When I taught a course on shamanism at Western new Mexico University, only one of my students lacked the ability to visualize enough to do shamanic work.

Of the zillions of books on shamanism, probably the best one is Way of the Shaman by Michael harner--who also started the Foundation for Shamanic Studies, and is the number-one authority on shamanism on the planet, now that Mircea Eliade is dead. But "shaman" is a job title, and so even if you can do the shamanic journey and have power animals and all, you need to have actually healed someone else--have had clients, in other words--before you can accurately call yourself a shaman.

Shamanism, like writing or art, is a calling. One is almost compelled to do it, through the shamanic initiation crisis. This is an informal period in which one loses one's mind or experiences some devastating physical injury, and heals oneself, thus gaining the ability --and more important, compassion and empathy--to heal others.

In my case, I went through a period of heavy drug and alcohol use, emotional and spiritual bankruptcy, and malnutrition--just managing to hang onto an obscenely high-paying but soul-destroying job in state government. I started having visions of a grey fox, changed my name to Greyfox, which became one of my power animals. (At the time I was unaware of the fact that shamans typically take the name of their power animal--the shaman who did my tatoo work was named Crow.)

I started a newsletter on shamanism in 1989--you want to learn something, teach it--and a year later, abandoned my job, friends, and family (not to mention a lavish townhouse full of stuff) and came to Alaska to live in a fifty-year old trailer with neither electricity nor running water. best--and most painful--move I ever made.

Today, I have everything I require--my 10x12 foot cabin is big enough (just barely). My 16-year old van runs fine, is comfortable and decent. I love my job, I have the respect of my peers, and the love of my family. More important than that, though, I have integrity and self-esteem, and refuse to do anything to compromise that. Sure, money gets tight sometimes and I get nervous--but that only reminds me of how much farther I have to go before reaching my goal of spiritual perfection.

It's a hard life, but it's a good life.

[Yoh]

I'm guessing your trying to give information to others that may be seeking this path? Perhaps you can post a little more about what shamans will learn/do.

[whocares123]

So anyone can do it? It doesn't take some...special power/ability beyond our control?

[Yoh]

Everyone has the ability to. Just some souls are better attuned than others. It just takes practice like anything else.

[OMr_duckO]

i'm a well-established yogin, but i would like to incorporate some shamanic practices into my routine. What was that book you reccomended about shamanism? i was about to buy a copy of amazon, but i wasn't sure if it was the one.

[Dream of the iris]

Books by Carlos Castaneda would be helpful.

[robinhoody]

Books by Carlos Castaneda would be helpful.Castaneda was a fraud, his books were works of fiction, and using them as the basis for study of anything but how a shyster managed to capitalize on an emerging market is setting yourself up for epic failure.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/The_More_You_Know.jpg

[Dream of the iris]

Care to prove this?

[whocares123]

Care to prove this?

It's been spread around a lot. Maybe he knows of some, but I don't know of any specific resources. A quick google search will probably bring some things up.

I can't remember if he ever admitted the books weren't true or not.

[robinhoody]

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/04/12/castaneda/

[ArmsMerchant]

Everyone has the ability to. Just some souls are better attuned than others. It just takes practice like anything else.

I wouldn't say everyone. According to Michael Harner (the number one authority on shamanism in the world--at least, now that Mircea Eliade is dead)--the main ability needed to do shaman stuff is the ability to visualize, and he says that about ten percent of the population cannot do this adequately.

[ArmsMerchant]

Castaneda was a fraud, his books were works of fiction, and using them as the basis for study of anything but how a shyster managed to capitalize on an emerging market is setting yourself up for epic failure.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/73/The_More_You_Know.jpg

There is no doubt that Castenada wrote fiction. At best, his Don Juan character was a composite of numerous sorcerors.

The whole point of shamanic work is healing, not doing flashy magickal stuff. There is not a single instance of anyone being healed in any of his books.

That said, there ARE some valid points made in his books--many works of fiction have some valuable insights--the Bible, for instance.

[ArmsMerchant]

i'm a well-established yogin, but i would like to incorporate some shamanic practices into my routine. What was that book you reccomended about shamanism? i was about to buy a copy of amazon, but i wasn't sure if it was the one.

The Way of the Shaman, by Michael Harner.

Also helpful--Soul Loss and Retrieval, by Sandra Ingerman; Plant Spirit Medicine, by Eliot Cowan.

[moonmeister]

I learned a lot from CC's imaginary shaman.

Yet ... & ...still?

I'm a sham.

[robinhoody]

That said, there ARE some valid points made in his books--many works of fiction have some valuable insights--the Bible, for instance.Oh no, I'm not saying that you can't take things from his books, just that basing an understanding of shamanism off of a series of books that have very little to do with actual shamanism seems a little bass-akwards.

[moonmeister]

I've mainly gotten a few techniques & practicle things to do as opposed to the primo weirdness he presents.

Imaginary shaman DJ said that a warrior walks miles every day.

It is quite true (try it & see...) that walking & looking at the ground about six feet ahead or at the horizon will stop your thoughts. Of course, this hypnotic state is more dangerous where there are hazards of traffic/people/animals.

Caution: It is totally different to walk slowly & do this. You should try walking like you were going somewhere & not dawdling along like you were on the road to nowhere. After you've tried walking at a good pace...you might try walking like a 4 year old who lost his best imaginary friend or a 70 year old on his last legs... Y ou won't enjoy it though. :eek:

It's best in wilder surroundings where it's quiet & serene.

He said to follow the 'Path with heart'. To do things that lift you up & carry you forward. To leave things out of your life things that waste your time & don't help you progress.

He said to respect the plants you eat & use. To vocally thank them. To confess to them that one day you too will give up your life & substance to nourish the living.

The technique of using your hat brim to shield most of the sun as you look at it through totally squinted, almost closed eyes? Seems useful (?) too.

[Yoh]

I wouldn't say everyone. According to Michael Harner (the number one authority on shamanism in the world--at least, now that Mircea Eliade is dead)--the main ability needed to do shaman stuff is the ability to visualize, and he says that about ten percent of the population cannot do this adequately.

Visualization is an ability able to everyone seeing how every HUMAN can pertain to the physical, mental, and astral planes. Some may be very underdeveloped in a certain plane due to a certain attribute, but it is never impossible to gain the skill required.

[Bukujutsu]

I don't know...the average person is preeeeety stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have the capacity.
Armsmerchant, is it possible to heal your own serious injuries if you become a good enough shaman? Obviously it would take decades of rigorous training, but it'd be cool...

[ArmsMerchant]

^Some years ago, I was reading about this revered redskin medicine man who had a bad knee. This white guy asked him why he didn't heal himself, and the dude said something like"God has given me so much already, I don't have the heart to ask for anything more."

At the time I was really impressed, thought "Wow--what humility and wisdom!"

Now I think more like "Wow, what an idiot." Evidently the poor guy was totally brainwashed by the Christian ethos (or is that mythos) that suffering is somehow good for you, or that God is sort of a piker, or something.

In my own case, I was actively addicted to many drugs for many years, which is sort of an occupational hazard with shamans. Four years ago, I quit popping pills, doing coke, drinking alcohol, smoking pot, and smoking tobacco--all on the same day. I had minimal withdrawal symptoms, and now mostly don't even think about it, except when I'm at an NA meeting. (I kind of have to go--I'm in charge of the group.) Does that count as having been healed? I don't know, and prefer not to make judgements on things.

More recently, I have been reading Ageless Body, Timeless Mind, by Deepak Chopra, which is all about quantum healing, and have been making some progress in transcending entropy. People who have known me for some time say I look ten years younger than I did a short while ago.

What's more, I have ME/CFIS (myalgic encephalopathy/chronic fatigue immunodisfunction syndrome). I used to wake up in severe pain almost every morning, and often had debiliting muscle spasms at night. That has pretty much stopped. When I feel pain, I just feel it, then focus my attention on it, and it goes away. But wait--there's more. . . .

Some fifteen years ago, I gave myself a hernia, trying to wrest a 100-pound propane tank that was on its side, stuck in a snowbank. I wore a truss for years, since I couldn't afford an operation. I worked on that--which is kind of awesome since hernias are only supposed to get worse--and last time I was checked, the PA could fid little sign of it. I don't wear the truss any more.

Next up--healing my cataracts--blurry vision sucks.

[OMr_duckO]

Does the quantum healing really work? I've had one session with my (sort of)guru, for my mild scoliosis.

[ArmsMerchant]

^Sure. One thing points out is that we get a new body every so often, as skin cells, bone cells and so on are replaced. Renewing the same old defectivr body is like rmodeling a building without making any improvements. I am not putting this very well--time pressure--I have five minutes before the comp times out, and I need to check another site.

[the meth god]

So anyone can do it? It doesn't take some...special power/ability beyond our control?

didnt you read what he just posted?

[Thunderhammer]

didnt you read what he just posted?

The common understanding is that learning to practition arts such as shamanism and divinity requires one to be naturally attuned to the particular art - similar to the way one can be naturally gifted in a sport or profession.

This isn't the case, it all comes down to experience and mental willpower - and whether or not you have it.

Part of the reason i spent so much time studying/researching psychology was to find those inhibitions in my persona that were telling me that i wasn't ready, so that i could find my path without fear of my own body & mind working against me.

The trick is to let go of those ideals of self-protection - the 'I will fail so why bother?' complex.

Obviously it varies from person to person, and a closed mind will always find it difficult to understand anything outside it's relative knowledge, but no one is incapable - that kind of thinking comes from watching/reading too much harry potter or star wars where only certain people possess those particular talents.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, it is possible for one to become 'awakened' spiritually without any noticable outside interference.

Throughout human history there are those who have had 'revelations' where they felt an almost euphoric sense of understanding, and often the persistance of trying to feel that euphoria leads to a greater understanding of their own spirit.

[Yoh]

Throughout human history there are those who have had 'revelations' where they felt an almost euphoric sense of understanding, and often the persistance of trying to feel that euphoria leads to a greater understanding of their own spirit.

Indeed the greatest mysteries of the universe reside inside one's self. Micro inside macro.

[Rizzo in a box]

Why do you tell us these things?

Why do we argue about useless bullshit?

Your life is a world of fiction, the newspaper is a work of fiction, the internet is a work of fiction, and if you can not see that nothing matters, you will be doomed to flounder in the world of the material, constantly searching for that which can only be realized in spirit.

No one becomes a shaman, no one is called to be a shaman, NOTHING HAPPENS. Nothing truly exists except for existence itself.

If I am wrong, then show me reality. Let me see it.

[Thunderhammer]

Rizzo, that's a pretty good idea and if i were to take it only one more step further - you could say that the universe itself is a work of fiction.

We cannot prove that the universe exists, therefore it as fictional as the christian idea of a 'God'.

Your right, nothing matters.

Not even the way we die holds any significance in this world anymore.

There is no purpose other than to simply exist, it is 'our' meaning in life, and perhaps the only one that is true, once you get past the petty graspings of those too ignorant or desperate to give a shit.

You could label this any which way you like, but only by understanding it can it hold any relevant meaning.

Reality...

In the context of 'reality', everything is real, fictional or fact.

Fiction lies within reality, so therefore fiction is as factual as reality itself.

Other than that, all that remains is the path* that one chooses for oneself.



* A 'path' can be anything, from self-destruction, self-preservation and everything/anything in-between, the only thing that makes it the 'right' path for you is if you yourself choose to follow it - Hell, you could even choose to follow many paths if you want, but it's unlikely that you'll get anywhere.

As for showing you reality, the same rules apply for the colour of the sky and whether or not it's blue or red.

Oh, and arguements provide a method for expending excess energy, it's just people don't usually realise that they could hold a civilised discussion as opposed to a full blown flame-war that ultimately leads nowhere other than more opposition.

[Bukujutsu]

Maybe life does have a meaning, but it's too complex for your brains to imagine. Think about it.

[Thunderhammer]

Maybe life does have a meaning, but it's too complex for your brains to imagine. Think about it.

Don't end your posts with 'think about it' - it shows a lack of consideration and a strong likelihood that what you've just said has been pulled from your ass.

Please explain your reasoning for the benefit of those who are interested.

[Yoh]

Rizzo, that's a pretty good idea and if i were to take it only one more step further - you could say that the universe itself is a work of fiction.

We cannot prove that the universe exists,


Um yes, we can. I think therefore I am. The right of self conciousness is the right of self existence in the material world where one may live through touch, taste, sight, smell, and hearing. This is your basic existence on a material plane, for I will not delve further since you seem to be having trouble with this concept.

However, I will not tell you why we exist, because I, myself, do not know of my existence except to further spiritual growth. But I wish to think there is more than just that....

[Thunderhammer]

Um yes, we can. I think therefore I am. The right of self conciousness is the right of self existence in the material world where one may live through touch, taste, sight, smell, and hearing. This is your basic existence on a material plane, for I will not delve further since you seem to be having trouble with this concept.

However, I will not tell you why we exist, because I, myself, do not know of my existence except to further spiritual growth. But I wish to think there is more than just that....

Your confusing my statement as if i were trying to question existence itself, and ignoring the context of which i had speculated on.

Do we exist within the universe or does the universe exist within us?

It is only because we can see, hear, taste and touch the world around us that we hold the belief that we exist within it.

However it isn't nessecarily true - it is within our own minds that the material reality exists, because that is where we find the physical evidence of it.

Unless of course you can hold such power over an object in which it literally becomes an extension of your being, there is no proof.

I wonder what Rizzo would have to say about this.

[Rizzo in a box]

Anyone who says, "I think therefore I am" has never learned how to properly shut off the internal dialog. I think I can only properly explain it through a part of a piece of poetry of mine:

At least in this poem, it is kind of weird

Like waking up to realize the wall has a beard

Or knowing that nothing at all truly exists

Yet existence itself consistently persists.

But really, words can not properly convey the symbols behind the words unless one is thoroughly acquainted with the subject matter.

[Yoh]

Anyone who says, "I think therefore I am" has never learned how to properly shut off the internal dialog.

And whoever says this fails to realize that everything in the material plane is brought about in the mental plane(Netzech), which is then channelled to the astral(Yesode) for construction and then perfected in Malkuth for physical manifestation.

Silencing your mind is nothing more than practicing will power. To think that because one's mind remains silent, that one does not exist is foolish.

[Yoh]

Your confusing my statement as if i were trying to question existence itself, and ignoring the context of which i had speculated on.

Do we exist within the universe or does the universe exist within us?

It is only because we can see, hear, taste and touch the world around us that we hold the belief that we exist within it.

However it isn't nessecarily true - it is within our own minds that the material reality exists, because that is where we find the physical evidence of it.

Unless of course you can hold such power over an object in which it literally becomes an extension of your being, there is no proof.

I wonder what Rizzo would have to say about this.

I'm sorry I didn't answer your question asked. I don't know how good I can explain this, but I'll try my best.

It is believed by Kabbalahlists and Hermetics that God is the universe. When man was created, he was made within God's image. This put a universe within another universe. The theory of the tree of life exists not only within the known universe, but also within man because he too was created in the image of God.

So this means that just like universe has within it different planes of existence (sephirots), so does man exist within these planes. For example, if you have ever read Genesis in the Bible where God created the Earth, it is analogues to that of a manifestation wished by a human. Vital energy is drawn from God down to Kether, where the energy is raw and unstable. So in order to make this energy workable, it is sent through regulators (sephirots) to where is begins to be workable in the mental plane (Netzech). The energy can now be given a purpose but since this plane does not follow the laws of time or space, it is sent to the astral plane (Yesode) to be further refined. Here the energy begins to solidify and gain a form, i.e. the name thoughtform. And finally to be manifested into perfection, it is then sent to the physical plane (Malkuth) where is completely solidified by the elements.

The universe is also perceived to be present in the physical and astral bodies (chakras) of a person within the Middle Pillar.

I've done my fair share of typing right now. If you care to learn more about this subject pick up The Tree of Life- by Israel Regardie and Initiation Into Hermetics- by Franz Bardon.

[Rizzo in a box]

And whoever says this fails to realize that everything in the material plane is brought about in the mental plane(Netzech), which is then channelled to the astral(Yesode) for construction and then perfected in Malkuth for physical manifestation.

Silencing your mind is nothing more than practicing will power. To think that because one's mind remains silent, that one does not exist is foolish.

What is the essence of existence?

[Yoh]

The soul

[OMr_duckO]

The soul

what do you think the soul is?

[Bukujutsu]

Don't end your posts with 'think about it' - it shows a lack of consideration and a strong likelihood that what you've just said has been pulled from your ass.

Please explain your reasoning for the benefit of those who are interested.

Your mind, your mental capacity, is limited by your physical body. Can an insect have any sort of thought? Can a chimpanzee even begin to understand anything discussed in this topic? You're an animal and have the limitations of an animal. You are the most intelligent creatures you know of and that may make this concept foreign to most of you. You cannot imagine what you're not capable of imagining. let's say that there's a race of aliens that are, let's say, over 9000 times more intelligent than you are. Which is to say, that you are like a dog and they are like a human. You are not capable of understanding what they understand. they are not able to explain it to you because your language is too primitive and even if they could it would seem like nonsense to you. You are not like us, you should not try to understand these things. It's a waste of your time.

[house]

It's a hard life, but it's a good life.

so true, its bitter sweet

you really are wise you know

[ArmsMerchant]

^BTW, I am indebted to my wife for this particular bit of wisdom. That is what she said when we first met, and at the time, I couldn't grasp it. Being a soft city kid, I equated "good" with easy, comfortable, wealthy.

Today, I live without running water in my cabin, health insurance or access to hospital care, and my family's net income is below the federal poverty level. And I have never been happier.

[house]

^BTW, I am indebted to my wife for this particular bit of wisdom. That is what she said when we first met, and at the time, I couldn't grasp it. Being a soft city kid, I equated "good" with easy, comfortable, wealthy.

Today, I live without running water in my cabin, health insurance or access to hospital care, and my family's net income is below the federal poverty level. And I have never been happier.

sounds great and all but, you have internet but no running water?

that really does sound quite peaceful and nice, a cabin and all, its just ironic that you have internet but no running water

[Thunderhammer]

You are not like us, you should not try to understand these things. It's a waste of your time.

They do say you can't teach an old dog new tricks - or perhaps it should be the other way round in this instance, in that you can't teach a young dog old tricks.

Oh, and for you Yoh; i'm trying to understand the world through my own capabilities, without the benefit of learning from those who themselves have learnt from others, when i feel i've reached my limit, then i'll probably end up seeking wisdom elsewhere.

I have but one more question; Do you believe what you are saying?

[ArmsMerchant]

sounds great and all but, you have internet but no running water?

that really does sound quite peaceful and nice, a cabin and all, its just ironic that you have internet but no running water

For internet access, I drive twenty miles to get to a library and use a public comp.

[Yoh]

They do say you can't teach an old dog new tricks - or perhaps it should be the other way round in this instance, in that you can't teach a young dog old tricks.

Oh, and for you Yoh; i'm trying to understand the world through my own capabilities, without the benefit of learning from those who themselves have learnt from others, when i feel i've reached my limit, then i'll probably end up seeking wisdom elsewhere.

I have but one more question; Do you believe what you are saying?

Sure do. But I guess the little kid has to touch the stove instead of trusting his mother eh?

[Thunderhammer]

Sure do. But I guess the little kid has to touch the stove instead of trusting his mother eh?

For some people, pain is the only master.

Of course, i prefer to see pain as an irritating - yet sensible - friend.

[Yoh]

And to each his own my friend. I honor your decision and I do not say that I have not gone against any teachings myself for a trial and error experiment.

[mishadowst]

The Way of the Shaman, by Michael Harner.

Also helpful--Soul Loss and Retrieval, by Sandra Ingerman; Plant Spirit Medicine, by Eliot Cowan.

I can t speak for anyone else but though his works were fictional i was able to use some of the techniques in his books to aid me in (what i like to call my path) learning esp. with the working in dreams...

[Thunderhammer]

I can t speak for anyone else but though his works were fictional i was able to use some of the techniques in his books to aid me in (what i like to call my path) learning esp. with the working in dreams...

fiction is a basis for the growth of the imagination, and therefore is an invaluable tool, perhaps more valuable than what is known as 'fact'.

Only by using the imagination can one turn a weakness into a strength.

[Star Wars Fan]

Maybe life does have a meaning, but it's too complex for your brains to imagine. Think about it.

pfffft.

The answer is 42 people.

Oh, and I'm reading all the posts. Nice

EDIT: and again, new information is revealed

[ArmsMerchant]

For some people, pain is the only master.

Of course, i prefer to see pain as an irritating - yet sensible - friend.

Remember, though--pain is mandatory--suffering is optional.

[Rizzo in a box]

To differentiate between pain and pleasure is the basis of all morality and probably suffering as well. Man desires to have infinite pleasure and minimal pain. But really, there is only energy and awareness.

[ArmsMerchant]

Bumped for the edification of new members.

[d[-_-]b]

Pshh, modern bias, all of it.

I will quote Tropic Thunder to foil your words.

"I am like a little boy playing with his dick"

True shamanism is "advanced-ignorance" at is best. What a blissful world which you live.

The best shamans looked for grandeur,

if there are ones you don't hear about...who cares?

You, who discuss life and a certain lifestyle, why?

You are all tools, different use then normal, but tools. Who do you impress?

You all are no better then christians, agnostic, muslims, fucking al qaeda.

You all just want to be special...and its cute.

However, the real goal/answer in life is to strengthen humanity. Yes, humanity needs shamans, pedophiles, druggies, and even serial killers.

(/pointless post end)

But in all seriousness, if you all think you are better then other people, or really believe your life choice is right. Go procreate and sculpt the future with your seed.

Because the truth is, while you debate on the internet and state things like : "I don't know...the average person is preeeeety stupid."

The average person is "over populating" you in the gene pool. (ways of life are both end products of nature and nurture)

[ArmsMerchant]

b;10522690']Pshh, modern bias, all of it.


But in all seriousness, if you all think you are better then other people, or really believe your life choice is right. Go procreate and sculpt the future with your seed.

)

I have stated many times--no one is better or worse than anyone else.

My life choice was right for me--few others could, I think, handle it.

[d[-_-]b]

I have stated many times--no one is better or worse than anyone else.

My life choice was right for me--few others could, I think, handle it.

I wasn't targeting anyone specifically.

[CosmicZombie]

Play WoW

[ArmsMerchant]

b;10555070']I wasn't targeting anyone specifically.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

[Azroth316]

I appreciate the original post, Arms. On a couple occasions I have looked quite a bit for info on shamanism, but it seems to be scarce. I'll probably be checking out that book you recommended pretty soon.

For internet access, I drive twenty miles to get to a library and use a public comp.

Do you drive every day to the library? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just get a 768k connection?

[ArmsMerchant]

Do you drive every day to the library? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just get a 768k connection?

1. I can't afford a comp--my income is close to poverty-level.
2. My cabin is 10x12 feet--no room even if someone gave me one.
3. No phone connection, even if I had room for one.

[Druidus]

I used to live in where it says I still live in the upper right. I understand what that isolation is like, AM.

My introduction to 'Shamanism' (each culture has a different name for the same essence, the meaning surpasses the message) came from an Elder Inuit woman (English name Anne, Inuktituk name unpronouncable, let alone rememberable) who killed herself after wandering out on the land and saving fox pups who lost their mother to poaching. She was dead long before starvation or thirst, she died using an ulu (a knife in the shape of that Star Wars symbol) to cut off bits of her flesh to feed the pups.

I volunteered at the Elder's Shelter, played cards with her, even taught her to play a mean game of chess (she didn't know how old she was, hadn't counted, but 65-85 I'd say, and she'd never seen a chess set). She was born in a remote tribe, and lost her family to tuberculosis.

When we were close enough, she told me she communicated with a spirit fox, and that it said she had to go soon, that she would die. After saying that, and then randomly finding a fox litter, I was quite awed.

She literally butchered herself alive to feed those pups. And they died anyway.:(

But her grandfather told her to tell someone about the spirits, about journeys, and about visions. About Inuit shamanism, really, fragmented as it was by missionaries.

I don't believe in spirits, I refer to such beings as constructs. More made of relations between ideas and thoughts than some mysterious aether. But you can work with them, if they want you to (it's not up to you). I have worked with three distinct individual constructs that stayed the same (self-maintaining constructs), a polar bear, a raven, and an owl. The other constructs are changeable, they morph, like ideas and thoughts reproducing and evolving on a different level of reality, a memetical one. Still individual constructs, but very organic, like a form of life not based on the substrate ours is.

But, then, that'll probably be misunderstood, not believed, or ridiculed. Whatever.

If you want more to poke fun at, I once meditated and communed with a tree, wherein I could FEEL the tree's existence. It felt like two consciousnesses merged, though of course I now know that a construct of the tree came to me, as trees don't have physical nervous systems.

Still I can't get across how much it felt like I became the tree and it became me and we were indivisibly related to each other and united in relation to the rest of reality.

The polar bear, raven, and owl experiences were similar, but I'd rather not talk about them, they're personal in a few ways.

I am not a Shaman. I do not know the way. But I know that without walking, the scenery stays the same. So I do what I can.

Being a shaman isn't a claim one can make. One has to be recognized as a shaman, or else it is just self-indulgent boasting. No shaman claims to be a shaman, a shaman just is. In my experience, anyway

[Druidus]

1. I can't afford a comp--my income is close to poverty-level.
2. My cabin is 10x12 feet--no room even if someone gave me one.
3. No phone connection, even if I had room for one.

Do you have a TV and lots of time on your hands? You could get a comp interface for the TV (TV keyboards and mice exist with an adapter), and then run a line underground all the way to the library to set your TV as a moniter of a library computer.

Sure, it's ridiculous amounts of work, but it'd pass the time. :p

[ArmsMerchant]

Being a shaman isn't a claim one can make. One has to be recognized as a shaman, or else it is just self-indulgent boasting. No shaman claims to be a shaman, a shaman just is. In my experience, anyway


This idea crops up from time to time, and with all due respect, I think it's bogus, for want of a more precise term. In some cultures, we are venerated; in others (Korea, for instace), reviled. Neither response is, I think, appropriate or reasonable.

"Shaman" is just a job title. Granted, it is more exotic than most jobs, comes with a wealth of emotional associations, requires some unusal aptitudes maybe, but at the end of the day, it is just a role one plays. I play that role when I do a soul retrieval, fior instance. I play the role of husband when I comfort my wife. I play the role of mod when I move a thread. I play the role of arms merchant when I sell a gun. None of this has anything to do with what I am.

Micheal Harner said that one has to be able to do three things in oder to be a shaman:
1. Visualize.
2. Do a shamanic journey.
3. Perform miracles.

i thnk that sums it up nicely.

BTW, attaining unity consciousness with trees is wonderful. They are very special epople.

[benpari]

How would you learn to enter Shamanic trances/journeys or communicate with spirits?

I have been reading on this topic in the last year and most of what I have read sounded uninformed.

Ever since I started to understand what shamanism was I have had a bit of a calling towards it, but its not the easiest subject in the world to get any decent information on.


Thanks.

[OMr_duckO]

How would you learn to enter Shamanic trances/journeys or communicate with spirits?

I have been reading on this topic in the last year and most of what I have read sounded uninformed.

Ever since I started to understand what shamanism was I have had a bit of a calling towards it, but its not the easiest subject in the world to get any decent information on.


Thanks.

I think those shamanic journey's/trances are just an unneccesarilly more complicated form of astral projection/dreaming (why do you have to go through a hole?).

Although I do like their idea of conditioning themselves by associating sounds of drums or rattles with their journey sessions to immerse themselves in the higher planes more quickly.

[Azroth316]

How would you learn to enter Shamanic trances/journeys or communicate with spirits?

I'd assume through meditation.

Arms, I'd be very interested in hearing your techniques for meditation, either here or in the meditation thread.

[ArmsMerchant]

How would you learn to enter Shamanic trances/journeys or communicate with spirits?

I have been reading on this topic in the last year and most of what I have read sounded uninformed.

Ever since I started to understand what shamanism was I have had a bit of a calling towards it, but its not the easiest subject in the world to get any decent information on.


Thanks.

I edited the OP to include the best single book avaiable on the subject.

Once you start to journey, acquire a power animal or two--they'll tell you all you need to know. At least that was my experience.

[benpari]

Thanks, got the book this morning. I will add it to my (huge) reading list


edit: I intended to read the book later but ended up just deciding to start it now even though I am already reading 2 other books on different subjects.
I just got done trying to enter the lower world, using the method he gives in the book and some CD drum tracks that fit what he describes perfectly. After about 4-5 minutes of laying on the ground in my living room with the headphones in I gave up because I couldn't seem to visualize anything well enough or move into a tunnel. I got the vision of my chosen entrance, a old mine shaft by my grandparents house, but once I tried to move into it everything fell apart. I tried the mine shaft a few times without success, then chose to switch to gopher hole I can remember and that was even less effective. Then I tried something totally different, I tried to enter a hollow tree trunk in a forest clearing that I saw in a really vision I got while I was experimenting with binaural beats that claimed to help you enter shamanic trances(In this vision I saw a very vivid still world(nothing was moving) in the middle of a very green forest, the entire thing had this weird psychedelic overlay of unnatural colors-especially the sky. I distinctly remember meeting a small redish deer like creature with one horn in the center of its forhead that seemed like it was there to tell me something-something I couldn't seem to stick around long enough to hear. At the time I was doing this I knew nothing about shamanism.) When I tried to enter the tree trunk I hit a wall, which after several attempts to get through I gave up.
I'm having the feeling that i am one of the 10% that is incapable of visualizing vividly enough, because all I can seem to get in my head is a still image and I can only hold it without going blank for 5 seconds. Even the vivid view of that forest I saw a few months ago was only in a series of still images that I only was able to see for a few seconds.

Anyways I will try again tomorrow. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[ArmsMerchant]

I'd assume through meditation.

Arms, I'd be very interested in hearing your techniques for meditation, either here or in the meditation thread.

Since you ask, I usually use the breath counting thing-- ahh, one; ahh, two; ahh, three; ahh, four--and start with one again.

Except sometimes my tiny mind wanders and I get up to "ahh, six. . . six?, you idiot!--PAY ATTENTION--amazing, you can screw up something this simple. . . .okay, let's try again; ahhh, one; ahh, two. . . . "

I looked into Japa meditation, but it seemed awfully complicated.

[Druidus]

This idea crops up from time to time, and with all due respect, I think it's bogus, for want of a more precise term. In some cultures, we are venerated; in others (Korea, for instace), reviled. Neither response is, I think, appropriate or reasonable.No offense taken, though could you elabourate on how to recognize actual shamans from the morass of bullshit-artists, then? Having thought further, I worded my first post poorly there, it is possible to claim shamanhood and practice authentically. I just promote skepticism of claims until a further understanding of the individual is achieved, especially if the claims are in some way connected to money. That cuts a lot out, perhaps the majority of individual claimants.

"Shaman" is just a job title. Granted, it is more exotic than most jobs, comes with a wealth of emotional associations, requires some unusal aptitudes maybe, but at the end of the day, it is just a role one plays. I play that role when I do a soul retrieval, fior instance. I play the role of husband when I comfort my wife. I play the role of mod when I move a thread. I play the role of arms merchant when I sell a gun. None of this has anything to do with what I am.It has a lot to do with how you have rippled/ripple/will rippled the waves of All/Source/reality/insert-ultimate-everything-word, as you travel farther through its incricately illusory "time"; or rather, a lot to do with how you move those close enough to feel the waves. There is no individual really, just relationships between ideas/matter. The "individual" is experienced for the same reason vision dampening eyewear is worn on the blinding snowy tundra when the sun shines sharply down. The brilliance of total clarity of vision/experience would be scorched (for lack of better term) by knowledge and/or direct experience of reality's fully interpreted (or better yet, a similar word implying intrinsic knowing) and realized structure.

We are a small part of a great net of relationships. This small part happens to observe itself and its surrounding parts, to a very limited extent. So it is the universe experiencing/observing itself locally and in a focused scope, through bits of its whole. A vessel of observation/experience cannot observe or experience anything greater than the in-built physical limitations of the vessel. Thus, we cannot percieve the totality of reality, to do so would be to force rope through a needle's eye. What you do when you alter your observing/experiencing is you change the settings on your scope. Many spiritual practices, recreational practices, disciplines of knowledge, etc, can help you turn the dials, but you are still limited, still not capable of focusing on the full big picture.

/shitty amp-related metaphor

, pMicheal Harner said thatone has to be able to do three things in oder to be a shaman:
1. Visualize.
2. Do a shamanic journey.
3. Perform miracles.

i thnk that sums it up nicely.I cannot comment on Harner, I haven't read his work, though I will check the local shops and library when I can get downtown and/or have money. Miracles do not exist, the universe is always rippling, sometimes relationships form tsunami (this is a matter of definition, of course).

Visualizing is very important, sure, agreed most heartedly. But so, too, is the ability to turn your various dials in other ways. Sometimes we miss in visualization what would be apparent if we let go of our flimsy reigns sometimes and just felt the flow. Sometimes we lack necessary attention/awareness when we visualize without sometimes just observing.

I think his description of shamanism at face-value as described, is simplistic and potentially misleading without further investigation of his ideas. Too open to misinterpretations without context. Not necessarily invalid, just very functionally simplistic.

Then again, an igloo is not very complex to the eye, but with context of the in-depth experiences of/with igloss, we see a high level of inherent mathematical beauty and structure. Like Transformers and potentially this Harner's idea, there's more to igloos than meets the eye. :p



BTW, attaining unity consciousness with trees is wonderful. They are very special epople.Your typo really made me laugh for some reason (not kicking dirt, not to offend in anyway, just found it a funny typo). Good peoplar indeed. :p

I haven't experienced it like that since, in seriousness, though. Quite unfortunate.

Please excuse ramblings/irrelevancies/inattentions/exceedingly tangential thought and etc, if applicable, as they are a result of sleep deprivation and certain chemicals (dial-turners). ;)

[ArmsMerchant]

^So, how do you tell a "real" shaman from a sham shaman? Beats me.

You could probably find an exception somewhere for any rule of thumb I might come up with, but as a very general rule, I'd say "real" shamans tend to be unpretentious, practical, relatively unconcerned with materialism, and hirsute.

Oh, and clinically insane.

[benpari]

I have been having a lot better luck then I have had before, I just couldn't seem to get the right amount of focus down.

The most interesting thing that happened to me in while in a trance was seeing a golden colored door with "Elohim" written above it, I was unable to open the door and someone/something told me I wasn't ready to open it yet. After that the ground began falling out beneath me and I followed tree roots down until i fell into a giant white void. Looking up I could see the roots dangling down and the white falling away and stars revealing themselves. I looked around and I was on the back of a turtle, with grass and trees growing on it(this reminded me incredibly of the Iroquois creation myth). There was a white owl there looking at me, I have seen this same owl several times(Is this my 'spirit/power animal'?)


Anyways I have a question, why do you take your spirit animal as your name? From what I have read in the book you suggested, a spirit animal is not permanent and you will have several throughout your life time, possibly several at the same time. So why would you use that in your name if your animal will be something completely different in a few years? Or am I missing something?

[Opus]

I'm sorry I didn't answer your question asked. I don't know how good I can explain this, but I'll try my best.

It is believed by Kabbalahlists and Hermetics that God is the universe. When man was created, he was made within God's image. This put a universe within another universe. The theory of the tree of life exists not only within the known universe, but also within man because he too was created in the image of God.

So this means that just like universe has within it different planes of existence (sephirots), so does man exist within these planes. For example, if you have ever read Genesis in the Bible where God created the Earth, it is analogues to that of a manifestation wished by a human. Vital energy is drawn from God down to Kether, where the energy is raw and unstable. So in order to make this energy workable, it is sent through regulators (sephirots) to where is begins to be workable in the mental plane (Netzech). The energy can now be given a purpose but since this plane does not follow the laws of time or space, it is sent to the astral plane (Yesode) to be further refined. Here the energy begins to solidify and gain a form, i.e. the name thoughtform. And finally to be manifested into perfection, it is then sent to the physical plane (Malkuth) where is completely solidified by the elements.

The universe is also perceived to be present in the physical and astral bodies (chakras) of a person within the Middle Pillar.

I've done my fair share of typing right now. If you care to learn more about this subject pick up The Tree of Life- by Israel Regardie and Initiation Into Hermetics- by Franz Bardon.

This is my favourite post in this thread. And while I personally believe one man had a firmer grasp on Qabbalah than Regardie, I certainly consider him distinctly knowledgeable on the subject. Yoh, without knowing either way, I would suspect you a possessor of the medicine of metals. The Tree of Life is, in my opinion, a flawless construct; there are many secrets to be gleaned from its study. If possible, I would like you to describe more of your beliefs. I am deeply interested in your personal path towards spiritual fulfillment.

[OMr_duckO]

[QUOTE=benpari;10648757]I have been having a lot better luck then I have had before, I just couldn't seem to get the right amount of focus down.

The most interesting thing that happened to me in while in a trance was seeing a golden colored door with "Elohim" written above it[QUOTE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

[Rizzo in a box]

Why would anyone want to become a shaman? It's like wanting to be alive.

[ArmsMerchant]

Why would anyone want to become a shaman? It's like wanting to be alive.

Good point. It is one thing to desire to learn some shamanic techniques for personal healing or empowerment, but no one in their right mind actually wants to BE a shaman. It is a calling, in the most literal sense.

Awesome fringe benefits, but the pay sucks.