ok im gonna be getting a new gun soon and i cant decide between these 2

[pyroman]

i want to either get and ar-15 or an ak47. i can get either one i just dont know which was is better but i am leaning more toward the ar-15. does anyone have any advice or experience with these guns?if so please help me

[IcEColdPlaYA]

It depends on how much you want to spend. You can get an AK-47 for about 250 or less, with a 30 shot banana clip. The AR-15s cost from 800 to 1000 dollars, and come with 10 shot clips.

In my opinion, the AR looks a lot better, is a lot more accuarate, but is just as tough as the AK. The ammo the AR uses (which is mostly .223) is more expensive than the 5.56 ammo the AK uses (they are the same caliber).

I would go with the AK. Despite what most people say, I think it is a damn good and reliable gun for its low price, and will shoot after going through hell.

[jodevilgod1]

Ive had extensive training and combat use with both of them . They are both very good weapons. The ar-15 has more accessories available for it, many times the ammunition is cheaper, it has a lower recoil. The m-16 is also much more accurate. They are generally 5.56 Nato(.223remington) They are also available in 7.62NATO(.308winchester) The ak-47 can take a lot of neglect and is very reliable in harsh conditions, you can throw a handful of sand in it and it will still fire. Ak-47s are often cheaper and easier to find, they are after all, the most popular assault rifle in the world. The AK-47 is 7.62x39 Ther is also the AK74 which is 5.45x39 I prefer the m-16 family ofer the Aks. Do you have any idea what manufacturers you are considering?

[This message has been edited by jodevilgod1 (edited 06-08-2003).]

[SilentSniper]

i have an M-4 and that is a sweet gun http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

i have also owned and shot a few ak's inside fifty yards they are fine if you can get past the fact that they kick like a mule, after 100 yds you are shit outa luck, with my M-4, iron sights i can hit a sillowet (sp) target the size of a man 5 out of 5 times in ten seconds with the ak ill be lucky to hit the targret once with 5 clips in hour

the ak comes in a few cals acctually, most notably 7.62 X 39, which is cheaper than .223 if cost is not a factor id get the ar then buy a collapsible stock and a 14" ak style barrel, i feel that the ar in its 18 or 20" barrel form with the fixed stock is too fuckin big.

if you cant do that shit and arent in for long range work get the ak (as a side note the ak is easier to convert to full auto)

[IcEColdPlaYA]

I would rather have the 5.56 over the 7.62. H

Have you had any experience with either of these guns?

[jodevilgod1]

The .223 has its applications, when a lot of power is not really needed and rapid follow up shots are benificial. I have learned to control the 7.62 under rapid fire and I like knowing that I have a high probobility of dropping someone with one round.

[dangerousdude]

You can get AR15's Chambered for 9mm,308,7.62x39 and of course 223, the only problem might be the availability of spare mags for 9mm. The 308 & 7.62 may be able to use the same mag.

I would suggest 7.62 or 308 because you can hunt dear with those calibers, most states only allow 223 for coyotes and smaller game. I hunt deer with my AK it's more a challenge than a good hunting rifle with a scope. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

[This message has been edited by dangerousdude (edited 06-08-2003).]

[havocdaemon]

Just my opinion. (btw, I don't know what the hell the first handful of you are talking about)

The AK is super cool because it is a cheap weapon and easy to use and maintain.

The Ar-15 is Extremely versatile weapon. It can be any type of weapon you want, from a long range and accuracy weapon, to a full auto assault rifle, and anything in between. But in the case of full auto assault rifles, you will need M-16 parts, like the reciever and such. But these are illegal. Which I'm assuming isn't an problem here.

I personally believe that you're full of shit. Anyone who is considering buying these kinds of weapons will either have very limited options, and/or will know exactly what they're doing. And most likely wouldn't post on totse.

On Clips: The Ak-47 isn't limited to the 30 round Banana style clips. It just happens to be the most popular one on T.V. The Ar-15 will accept a 30 shot banana clip, with certain modifications (It will be heavily modified anyways). as well as 15, 10, etc. The only differences between banana and straight is space and style.

[Edit: I got a little carried away, neither one of these weapons qualify as a Heavy assault rifle. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)]

[This message has been edited by havocdaemon (edited 06-08-2003).]

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by havocdaemon:

Just my opinion. (btw, I don't know what the hell the first handful of you are talking about)

The Ar-15 is Extremely versatile weapon. It can be any type of weapon you want, from a long range and accuracy weapon, to a full auto assault rifle, and anything in between. But in the case of full auto assault rifles, you will need M-16 parts, like the receiver and such. But these are illegal. Which I'm assuming isn't an problem here.



He wants a semi-auto AR15, who said full auto M16 ?



quote:Originally posted by havocdaemon:



I personally believe that you're full of shit. Anyone who is considering buying these kinds of weapons will either have very limited options, and/or will know exactly what they're doing. And most likely wouldn't post on totse.

He's not full of shit he wants it as a toy, basically to shoot recreational or home protection those reasons most of the time are

the motivation for buying one in the USA.

secondly this is a weapons forum, why the hell would you not post on here ?



quote:Originally posted by havocdaemon:



The Ar-15 will accept a 30 shot banana clip, with certain modifications (It will be heavily modified anyways). as well as 15, 10, etc. The only differences between banana and straight is space and style.



Not true AR15's where originally designed for 30 round clips bananas, no modifications needed.

http://www.tapco.com/item_pics/sm/MAG6306_sm.jpg (http://www.tapco.com/item_pics/sm/MAG6306_sm.jpg)

quote:Originally posted by havocdaemon:





On Clips: The Ak-47 is limited to the 30 round Banana style clips.

you can get 100 RND drums for both.

http://holfordarms.com/advt/image/22.jpg (http://holfordarms.com/advt/image/22.jpg)



quote:Originally posted by havocdaemon:



I got a little carried away, neither one of these weapons qualify as a Heavy barrel assault rifle.

you can purchase heavy barrel AK & AR15's no problem for few $100.00 extra.



[This message has been edited by dangerousdude (edited 06-08-2003).]

[IcEColdPlaYA]

I want a 100 shot drum! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[The_Stalker]

First of all, there is the issue of quality, an AR 15 is not going to leave a factory in less than tip top condition whereas the AK is mass produced in all kinds of god forsaken places. If you get an AK get a good one, chinese, hungarian, or russian would be my choices. I used to have a used surplus (it had many owners and was old) bulgarian AK 74 and it was pure shit, I got a jam or misfire once every 30 clips or so, mostly ejection problems, but once a bullet got stuck in the barrel. The weapon was definately not worth the $175 I paid. So dont buy just any AK get a good one. If I was presented a choice AK or choice AR I would go for the AR a few of my buds have them and never have problems. Good old American quality is the way to go.

Opinion; AR 15

[Verdammnis]

http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/photos/ak-mag100.jpg (http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/photos/ak-mag100.jpg)

100 ROUND BANANA CLIP!

Yeah, Baby........

[IcEColdPlaYA]

I would much rather have the drum, since it takes up less room. It must take a LONG time loading those.

[pyroman]

im not full of it , i just want to get the gun for recreational shooting and i will also hunt with it sometimes, i also have no experience with either gun and o yea the money will not be a problem

does anyone know a good site where i can look at these weapons

[jodevilgod1]

quote:Originally posted by IcEColdPlaYA:

I want a 100 shot drum! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

you can get a 200 round drum for the AR. But you must think of how much the drums weigh loaded, it suks to add 8 pounds of ammo to an almost 10 pound rifle, and then have to carry it around.

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by jodevilgod1:

you can get a 200 round drum for the AR. But you must think of how much the drums weigh loaded, it suks to add 8 pounds of ammo to an almost 10 pound rifle, and then have to carry it around.

Isn't 2 drums side by side, it would be good for a fixed position on a tripod, like a prison watch tower.

[jodevilgod1]

It could, but the m-16 isnt really meant to be a support weapon, it would overheat. Of ourse you could get a heavy barrel, which would add on even more weight.

[Lundmark]

Id get an ak47 because terrorist all over the world use them. It must be good, well not nessacararly, its probably because its cheap/easy to make and fully automatic.

[Volo]

quote:Originally posted by pyroman:

i want to either get and ar-15 or an ak47. i can get either one i just dont know which was is better but i am leaning more toward the ar-15. does anyone have any advice or experience with these guns?if so please help me

Both of them are hella weak. If you have to choose between the two, go w/ the ak47. The ar-15 is so weak they won't even let you hunt deer with it (doesn't kill them effectively enuf).

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by Volo:

Both of them are hella weak. If you have to choose between the two, go w/ the ak47. The ar-15 is so weak they won't even let you hunt deer with it (doesn't kill them effectively enuf).

You can get AR15's Chambered for 9mm,308,7.62x39 and of course 223, the only problem might be the availability of spare mags for 9mm. The 308 & 7.62 may be able to use the same mag.

I would suggest 7.62 or 308 because you can hunt dear with those calibers, most states only allow 223 for coyotes and smaller game. I hunt deer with my AK it's more a challenge than a good hunting rifle with a scope. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

[ArmsMerchant]

Forget spray and pray.

I'd get a Ruger in .30-.06 with a nice Leopold (sp?) scope. I had one, loved it, sold it, needed the dough.

[7.62x39]

the ak can be draged through mud and still fire, the ar cant. the ak has an 7.62x39 bullet and the ar has a 5.56x45. in other words: get the ak-47

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by 7.62x39:

the ak can be draged through mud and still fire, the ar cant. the ak has an 7.62x39 bullet and the ar has a 5.56x45. in other words: get the ak-47



quote:Originally posted by dangerousdude:

You can get AR15's Chambered for 9mm,308,7.62x39 and of course 223, the only problem might be the availability of spare mags for 9mm. The 308 & 7.62x39 may be able to use the same mag.

I would suggest 7.62x39 or 308 because you can hunt dear with those calibers, most states only allow 223 for coyotes and smaller game. I hunt deer with my AK it's more a challenge than a good hunting rifle with a scope. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)





[This message has been edited by dangerousdude (edited 06-10-2003).]

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Forget spray and pray.

I'd get a Ruger in .30-.06 with a nice Leopold (sp?) scope. I had one, loved it, sold it, needed the dough.

I hunt in dence woods so the farthest shot is about 75 yards and your only allowed the 5 round clip, my dad has a scope on his AK though.

But when you see those Russians crossing the straits you better have that Ruger in .30-.06 with a nice Leopold http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

[This message has been edited by dangerousdude (edited 06-10-2003).]

[jodevilgod1]

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Forget spray and pray.

I'd get a Ruger in .30-.06 with a nice Leopold (sp?) scope. I had one, loved it, sold it, needed the dough.

Or a Remington 700 in .308 with a 4-14x Leupold

[TexasLiberationArmy]

If you take care of the ar-15 then it will be just as reliable as the AK. and if your gonna spend the money then why not take care of it. I say AR-15. Much nicer gun to shoot, more accurate, more after market products. Also you can get ammo for hunting deer- its called ballistic tips. more deer are killed every year with .22 LR than any other caliber according to the NJGWD.

[IcEColdPlaYA]

Hunting deer with a .22 is not very humane. I know that it can kill them, but if I hunted I would want a gun that would kill them before they hit the ground.

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by TexasLiberationArmy:

If you take care of the ar-15 then it will be just as reliable as the AK. and if your gonna spend the money then why not take care of it. I say AR-15. Much nicer gun to shoot, more accurate, more after market products. Also you can get ammo for hunting deer- its called ballistic tips. more deer are killed every year with .22 LR than any other caliber according to the NJGWD.

It's illegal in many states Do you really want to comit a crime with your new gun so it can get seized ?

[pyroman]

i dont care about deer hunting because thats why i have my 30-06 with a simmons scope and trust me its get the job done

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by pyroman:

i dont care about deer hunting because thats why i have my 30-06 with a simmons scope and trust me its get the job done

Huntings a sport, you may want to take it to next level and increase the skill and challenge if your the competitive type like myself.

[IcEColdPlaYA]

quote:Originally posted by dangerousdude:

Huntings a sport, you may want to take it to next level and increase the skill and challenge if your the competitive type like myself.

But dont do something stupid like hunt with a .223 green tip or a .22. Never go under a .243.

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by IcEColdPlaYA:

But don't do something stupid like hunt with a .223 green tip or a .22. Never go under a .243.

when hunting anything besides small game and humans http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

[floridaguy]

I have quite a bit of experience with both the AK and the AR. This issue has been the subject of may debates both in the field and at the range. Both have their good and bad points. As a survival weapon though I would (and have) pick the AK for the following reasons:

1. Reliability - No matter how dirty, wet or gritty the AK will always function. The AR functions pretty reliably if its kept clean and most models have a forward assist in case the rifle does jam, you are able to manually seat the cartridge. (now why do you think they have to have that feature?)

2. Cost - 7.62X39 ammo is a lot cheaper than .223 (about half if you shop around. You can't shoot the cheaper steel case stuff in the the AR's aluminum receiver or you wear out your receiver; you have to use brass case ammo - not a problem in the AK.

3. Simplicity of operation - The AK is much simpler to dissasseble and clean (and has fewer small pieses to loose) than the AR. It also carries its cleaning kit and rod on the rifle, not in a separate pouch like the AR. Safety is large and easy to find in the dark.

4.Ballistics - The 7.62X39 round, while slower than the .223, is over twice as heavy (123gr vs. 55gr) which means its less likely to be deflected off target by a leaf or branch. The AR is somewhat more accurate at distances over 100 yards, but in a survival situation I don't expect to be in an area of large open distances.

Either one is probably a good choice, but I've made mine. IMO the drums are only useful on a fixed location weapon using a bipod - too heavy to lug around. If there's so many of them that 30-rounds at a time won't stop them, I would consider surrender.

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by floridaguy:

I have quite a bit of experience with both the AK and the AR. This issue has been the subject of may debates both in the field and at the range. Both have their good and bad points. As a survival weapon though I would (and have) pick the AK for the following reasons:

2. Cost - 7.62X39 ammo is a lot cheaper than .223 (about half if you shop around. You can't shoot the cheaper steel case stuff in the the AR's aluminum receiver or you wear out your receiver; you have to use brass case ammo - not a problem in the AK.

.

You can get AR15's Chambered for 9mm,308,7.62x39 and of course 223, the only problem might be the availability of spare mags for 9mm. The 308 & 7.62 may be able to use the same mag.

[IcEColdPlaYA]

But im pretty sure they can only still fire brass casings.

[floridaguy]

Actually the 308 AR is an AR-10 made by Armalite - a bunch of parts interchange but its necessarily a heavier-duty gun but the AR-15 does come in the othe calibers. Again, cost of a good AR (pre-ban) runs from $1000 to $2000 with an AR-10 running about $2500. A good AK (again preban) with milled receiver/chrome lined barrel can be picked up in the $800-$1000 range. Post ban guns (except for the AR-10) run about half of the above prices.

Bang-for-the-buck-best-choice = AK

[dangerousdude]

quote:Originally posted by floridaguy:

Actually the 308 AR is an AR-10 made by Armalite - a bunch of parts interchange but its necessarily a heavier-duty gun but the AR-15 does come in the othe calibers. Again, cost of a good AR (pre-ban) runs from $1000 to $2000 with an AR-10 running about $2500. A good AK (again preban) with milled receiver/chrome lined barrel can be picked up in the $800-$1000 range. Post ban guns (except for the AR-10) run about half of the above prices.

Bang-for-the-buck-best-choice = AK

I've seen all variants made by Colt in Shot Gun News.

[F§c§k_school]

got to love that Banana Clip man were can I get 1 !